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Offline H.-P.

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Progress of (Game-)Time
« on: 08 April 2011, 11:09:16 »
Timeprogress was a very hot discussed topic with the Guild series.
In Kontor, progress of time will be an important part too.

Im interested in your opinion abot the game time progress.

- How fast should game time progress in relation to the real life time?

- Do you think that night and day circles or the seasons are important?

Offline bad karma

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #1 on: 08 April 2011, 14:01:59 »
I think that the time progress is a problem in the Guild series. Time flows increadibly fast there and the weather/seasons are random and have almost nothing to do with the enviroment.

What I think should be fair is either real life day circle (24 hours or 12 hours). Means when your character wakes up in 5 am it should be foggy around as usually, then in about 4 hours the sun shines. Depends on the weather though. Or we can use 12 hour system. But it should be either real hours (1 hour = 60 min) or something close.

Also, I am completely against the 'year-per-round' system. First of all, if the games storyline is during the 30 year war than it should stay that age. A player should not go up to 2000s etc. It is just non sence IMO. Time passes too fast.

I suggest making minutes/hours/days/weeks/months etc. They can remove seconds or something.

Also, in the Guild series your character basically doesn't need to eat, sleep etc. He can work full time with no sleep. I think it should be fixed in the new game. Like a character is now your sim and you should take care of him (sleeping, eating, bathing etc). Overwise, I don't see the point in fixing the time if the time does nothing except of elderly.

Also, I think that seasons should be very important. And weather aswell. Raining? Citizens are running home or any places to hide from rain. Too cold? Get more clothes etc.

Seasons should also greatly affect agriculture and other stuff.

Well, I know it probably won't be touched in any way so we will end up with the game which will keep all the Guild problems  ;D

Offline General Chaos

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #2 on: 08 April 2011, 14:04:56 »
Ah, very good (and important) questions:

1.  This depends on the pace you want the economy to flow at.  That said, it would be amazing to have a truly real-time clock where one minute in real life equaled one minute in-game. 

This sounds crazy, I know, but hear me out.  I'm going to draw on an example that might make some people roll their eyes but remember I'm just referencing this game for the way time flows in it, not anything else; the game: Animal Crossing. 

AC simulated real-time by having things "progress" as soon as the player loads the game, so if, for example, you stop playing at 12:00am and start playing again at 6:00am, 6 hours worth of "stuff" will be calculated by the game when you start again.  It's a trick, yes, but it greatly increases immersion.  If Kontor has a sufficiently good AI management tool then you could pull this off easily.  Basically, give players the option to set up a "strategy" for their businesses, political approach, etc. while they are "away."  This could be a simple interface like you find in some RPGs (a recent one that comes to mind is Dragon Age's party AI settings).  When you start playing Kontor again these settings and whatever else the enemy dynasties were up to could determine what "happened" while you were away.   Basically this trick would create the sense of a persistent game, even offline. 

Anyway, the point of this rambling is to provide a suggestion for how the flow of time could be greatly slowed down but still be rewarding and engaging.  That said, ideally there would also be an option for faster time and to turn off the "persistent" mode, for those players who want quicker game sessions.

2.  Yes, I think there should be both.  In fact, I think weather and darkness should have an impact on gameplay.  Guards should have lowered awareness/line of sight at night and in bad weather, allowing for thieves to do their business more easily, and bad weather could even slow down carts and people.

Hope these ideas aren't too wild and thanks for taking them into consideration.

edit: oh, and I agree with Bad Karma, there's really no reason to have "rounds."  Seasons can just change real-time withotu a break in the game.  I also like his ideas about people behaving differently according to weather and the impact of seasons on agriculture.  Two things could come out of this: 1. crafters could make items to help in cold weather (e.g. fur coats) and 2. different crops could be grown in different seasons, ala harvest moon.
« Last Edit: 08 April 2011, 14:07:42 by General Chaos »

Offline bad karma

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #3 on: 08 April 2011, 14:39:46 »
AC simulated real-time by having things "progress" as soon as the player loads the game, so if, for example, you stop playing at 12:00am and start playing again at 6:00am, 6 hours worth of "stuff" will be calculated by the game when you start again.  It's a trick, yes, but it greatly increases immersion.  If Kontor has a sufficiently good AI management tool then you could pull this off easily.  Basically, give players the option to set up a "strategy" for their businesses, political approach, etc. while they are "away."  This could be a simple interface like you find in some RPGs (a recent one that comes to mind is Dragon Age's party AI settings).  When you start playing Kontor again these settings and whatever else the enemy dynasties were up to could determine what "happened" while you were away.   Basically this trick would create the sense of a persistent game, even offline.

Great idea. However I can't really think of a way it may be implemented into an RPG game. I don't know how it is working in AC (actually, I think I'm gonna try this one right now hehe) so idk. It sounds like an MMORPG experince, just with offline game. Sounds really great indeed. Imagine yourself running from work just to prevent the rival dynasty from bombing your tavern hahah.

Well, again, it sounds great, but I can't think of a way it may be implemented. Maybe as some kind of offline server where data will be 'played at' while you are afk? In addition to this idea, I have another one:

Make it semi-turn based. I can't think out of the way how will it work, but let's say if your ARE playing the game then it is strictly real time based, but if you are AFK then PC takes turns, so you will have time to get back in action. Overwise, I can see myself being killed while I sleep or something.

Anyways, I want to thank General Chaos for keeping interest on this topic. Hope, it turns out into something, but I still doubt it.

P.S. Why don't you guys make long-term projects like Dwarf Fortress. This game is absoluetely free to play and is constantly being updated but the guys who are running the project make thousands of dollars each month (!). I mean when you are making a game just to sell it it usually turns out to be underdone and with a lot of flaws. Long-term projects (like H&H, DF and some others) are constantly developed and this keeps the interest of a lot of players. Any game which is sold once and forever is usually forgotten after one week (not all the games, of course. For example, I still have a hope for TG2), but long-term prjects are always interested by players because they are not finished usually but have much more features than any other 'offline' game out there.
« Last Edit: 08 April 2011, 14:49:47 by bad karma »

Offline FH

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #4 on: 10 April 2011, 12:34:42 »
Thanks for the great input of yours :)

I think that the time progress is a problem in the Guild series. Time flows increadibly fast there and the weather/seasons are random and have almost nothing to do with the enviroment.

That's true. At least the impacts the seasons have on gameplay are neglegible :/

What I think should be fair is either real life day circle (24 hours or 12 hours). Means when your character wakes up in 5 am it should be foggy around as usually, then in about 4 hours the sun shines. Depends on the weather though. Or we can use 12 hour system. But it should be either real hours (1 hour = 60 min) or something close.

I don't get this idea completely. You mean that the game should have a real day/night cycle based on real time? So if you're playing at 5 am (real time) it's dark in game?
But then many years have to change during one day. If you play for 24 hours you should at least be able to get some children and build up a small dynasty, so you'd have several change in the middle of the day.
Or did I misunderstand your suggestion?

Also, I am completely against the 'year-per-round' system. First of all, if the games storyline is during the 30 year war than it should stay that age. A player should not go up to 2000s etc. It is just non sence IMO. Time passes too fast.

Yeah, that may be true. It should be possible to play for a few generations, though. If you start in 1500 and you play until 1650 that should be at least 4 or 5 generations you can play with (if you don't let some out, e.g. playing with the grandson or so).
And that's something you'll need a system similar to turns. I also liked the old system of Europe 1400 a lot, where you got an overview at the end of the turn, including several reports about history.
Maybe we could make it that you play one or two days in each season AND you have an option where you can set the time flow:
Very slow: 1 day is one month. So you play 12 turns for one year.
Slow:  2 days are one season, that means 8 turns for one year
Normal: 1 day is one season => 4 turns/y
Fast: 1 day is half a year, so during the day the season changes from spring to summer or from fall to winter
Very fast: 1 day is a year and every year the season changes (Europe 1400 like)

That way we'd have far longer games on normal speed but also some shorter games on fast speed for players who don't have the time to play that long.

Also, in the Guild series your character basically doesn't need to eat, sleep etc. He can work full time with no sleep. I think it should be fixed in the new game. Like a character is now your sim and you should take care of him (sleeping, eating, bathing etc). Overwise, I don't see the point in fixing the time if the time does nothing except of elderly.

I totally disagree, we don't want to make another Sims - Medieval extended. I do like the idea of having him doing all this actions, but the player will definitely not have to set this actions manually. At least as long as I have to do something with Runeforge :P

Also, I think that seasons should be very important. And weather aswell. Raining? Citizens are running home or any places to hide from rain. Too cold? Get more clothes etc.

I completely agree. If you don't buy clothes for winter it would be nice if chances of getting a cold rise, for example.

Seasons should also greatly affect agriculture and other stuff.

That's also true and very important ;)

Well, I know it probably won't be touched in any way so we will end up with the game which will keep all the Guild problems  ;D

Pfff >:(

AC simulated real-time by having things "progress" as soon as the player loads the game, so if, for example, you stop playing at 12:00am and start playing again at 6:00am, 6 hours worth of "stuff" will be calculated by the game when you start again.  It's a trick, yes, but it greatly increases immersion.  If Kontor has a sufficiently good AI management tool then you could pull this off easily.  Basically, give players the option to set up a "strategy" for their businesses, political approach, etc. while they are "away."  This could be a simple interface like you find in some RPGs (a recent one that comes to mind is Dragon Age's party AI settings).  When you start playing Kontor again these settings and whatever else the enemy dynasties were up to could determine what "happened" while you were away.   Basically this trick would create the sense of a persistent game, even offline. 

If I'm right you want the player to be forced to play regularly in order to not get wiped out? I don't know if I can like that idea, because you always had total control over your business and your dynasty in Guild-like games. If we'd implement it that way we could (or should?) make it a MMO game.

Anyway, the point of this rambling is to provide a suggestion for how the flow of time could be greatly slowed down but still be rewarding and engaging.  That said, ideally there would also be an option for faster time and to turn off the "persistent" mode, for those players who want quicker game sessions.

I don't know if it would be wise to implement two completely different game styles. That could cause a lot of ballancing issues, but I slowly get the idea ^^

edit: oh, and I agree with Bad Karma, there's really no reason to have "rounds."  Seasons can just change real-time withotu a break in the game.  I also like his ideas about people behaving differently according to weather and the impact of seasons on agriculture.  Two things could come out of this: 1. crafters could make items to help in cold weather (e.g. fur coats) and 2. different crops could be grown in different seasons, ala harvest moon.

Maybe I completely misunderstood Bad Karma:
Are you suggesting that the game time and season is always the same as real time and season?
Sorry, but that's the most crazy idea ever :D But I really like it. Many people won't like it, though.

Great idea. However I can't really think of a way it may be implemented into an RPG game. I don't know how it is working in AC (actually, I think I'm gonna try this one right now hehe) so idk. It sounds like an MMORPG experince, just with offline game. Sounds really great indeed. Imagine yourself running from work just to prevent the rival dynasty from bombing your tavern hahah.

Don't know if I'd like that^^ Sounds too much like "World of Kontor" without being online at all^^

Make it semi-turn based. I can't think out of the way how will it work, but let's say if your ARE playing the game then it is strictly real time based, but if you are AFK then PC takes turns, so you will have time to get back in action. Overwise, I can see myself being killed while I sleep or something.

Could you explain that idea a bit further?
You mean if you're playing the time flow is like real time, but if you're not playing the game speeds up and is played in turns?
You know that the PC can't compute anything while it's not turned on? :P

P.S. Why don't you guys make long-term projects like Dwarf Fortress.

Who says we don't?
« Last Edit: 10 April 2011, 12:51:02 by FH »

Offline bad karma

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #5 on: 10 April 2011, 15:33:38 »
I don't get this idea completely. You mean that the game should have a real day/night cycle based on real time? So if you're playing at 5 am (real time) it's dark in game?
But then many years have to change during one day. If you play for 24 hours you should at least be able to get some children and build up a small dynasty, so you'd have several change in the middle of the day.
Or did I misunderstand your suggestion?

Not really. Simply in-game time system. If it is 5 am IN-GAME then it is either dark or bright in-game (depends on the season etc) and real life time, of course, should not affect it. What I mean is that the games time progress should be divided into days/weeks/months and years (so we can built up generations). The Guild series have either 1 year per round system (which is like 24 minutes IRL) or 4 years per round (TG2), which is not good IMO. I think that the time should pass slowly and, at the same time, player could do something without getting bored. I am also against fast forward thing. Not sure, if you guys are going to implement this, but I don't like it. I think that a player should play full time and enjoy his in-game destinations, not simply scroll 15 hours forward etc. What I mean is that years is ok, but they should be divided into something more and there should be NO rounds. That's it. Once you run a game it simply passes (time of a day, seasons, weather, years etc) without rounds. Personally I don't like rounds. So let's say if a game is divided into hours, days, weeks, months and years then it is: 1 RL minute - 1 in-game hour, 24 RL minutes - 1 in-game day etc. It is just an idea.

Yeah, that may be true. It should be possible to play for a few generations, though. If you start in 1500 and you play until 1650 that should be at least 4 or 5 generations you can play with (if you don't let some out, e.g. playing with the grandson or so).
And that's something you'll need a system similar to turns. I also liked the old system of Europe 1400 a lot, where you got an overview at the end of the turn, including several reports about history.
Maybe we could make it that you play one or two days in each season AND you have an option where you can set the time flow:
Very slow: 1 day is one month. So you play 12 turns for one year.
Slow:  2 days are one season, that means 8 turns for one year
Normal: 1 day is one season => 4 turns/y
Fast: 1 day is half a year, so during the day the season changes from spring to summer or from fall to winter
Very fast: 1 day is a year and every year the season changes (Europe 1400 like)

That way we'd have far longer games on normal speed but also some shorter games on fast speed for players who don't have the time to play that long.

Sure, why not? I am not against several game types including how fast the game should pass. However, provided that this game may be saved and restored I don't see the point, but OK. As I already stated, I don't like the turn system. IMO the game should pass non-stop since the beggining.

Well, few generations should be cool (I like to play the dynasty dramas haha) but if you want to stick to the special timeframe (30 Years War) then I don't see how is it possible to be able to built few generationd without leaving the historical period.

Btw, if you want my opinion, I don't see the real reason of making a historical accurate games. IMO, it's 100 times better to make a fictional world rather than a real-world based game. You will end up with loads of historical in-accuracies + territory problem. Of course you can not make a whole Europe map. And what it is turning into are small maps, which are bad IMO. It would be great to have one world you can free roam at, completely new experience etc. Imagine your dynasty ruled the city for 30 years and now your enemies managed to kill the main leaders of the dynasty and those, who are still alive now must run out of the city to not to be killed. The dynasty is now setting up in another city, slowly building their wealth and...gets ready for revenge :)



I totally disagree, we don't want to make another Sims - Medieval extended. I do like the idea of having him doing all this actions, but the player will definitely not have to set this actions manually. At least as long as I have to do something with Runeforge :P?



Hehe. I don't see the connection between the Guild-like game and The Sims Medieval (which failed completely). I am just saying I think that your character must sleep, eat, drink..idk, maybe pray if you set him to be religious etc. I don't want the player to set him manually on these actions, but your character should show that he is tired, hungry etc. And if you won't let him to sleep or eat he may eventually die. I just found it strange that your character may work 24/7 while NPC's (except of Rogue class) are visiting taverns, sleeping, using salutial services etc.


Maybe I completely misunderstood Bad Karma:
Are you suggesting that the game time and season is always the same as real time and season?
Sorry, but that's the most crazy idea ever :D But I really like it. Many people won't like it, though.


Nope :)

« Last Edit: 10 April 2011, 15:36:51 by bad karma »

Offline bad karma

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #6 on: 10 April 2011, 15:42:00 »
I had to write it into a new post (that long post thing is so annoying).

How are you guys going to make courtship work? In the Europa 1400: The Guild it is perfect. You don't see the process but it seems definately logical to court a woman for several years before you can actually 'get her' :)

In TG2, however, this system (just like anything else in the game) has been changed dramatically, and became funny and silly. Now it takes 5 actions to make a woman fall in love with you :) I mean isn't it a strange system.

I really don't know (yet) how would I implement it in a game where you can feel your character. In TG1 you can not see/feel your character so all these things are pretty good there, but in the sequel you can see and move your character and most of the things he/she does are really boring and make no sence. Hope you guys will figure out a better systems which will be more interesting and logical. Well, we don't even know yet if you will control your character personally or not in Konor :)

Offline FH

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #7 on: 10 April 2011, 15:52:50 »
Not really. Simply in-game time system. If it is 5 am IN-GAME then it is either dark or bright in-game (depends on the season etc) and real life time, of course, should not affect it. What I mean is that the games time progress should be divided into days/weeks/months and years (so we can built up generations). The Guild series have either 1 year per round system (which is like 24 minutes IRL) or 4 years per round (TG2), which is not good IMO. I think that the time should pass slowly and, at the same time, player could do something without getting bored. I am also against fast forward thing. Not sure, if you guys are going to implement this, but I don't like it. I think that a player should play full time and enjoy his in-game destinations, not simply scroll 15 hours forward etc. What I mean is that years is ok, but they should be divided into something more and there should be NO rounds. That's it. Once you run a game it simply passes (time of a day, seasons, weather, years etc) without rounds. Personally I don't like rounds. So let's say if a game is divided into hours, days, weeks, months and years then it is: 1 RL minute - 1 in-game hour, 24 RL minutes - 1 in-game day etc. It is just an idea.

Ah, now I got it. :)


Sure, why not? I am not against several game types including how fast the game should pass. However, provided that this game may be saved and restored I don't see the point, but OK. As I already stated, I don't like the turn system. IMO the game should pass non-stop since the beggining.

Yes, but we need some point where the year pops up. And you can't play 365 days in game in order to let one year pass ^^ So we need a moment (which was the end of turn in Guild 2) where we can increment the year/season/month.

Well, few generations should be cool (I like to play the dynasty dramas haha) but if you want to stick to the special timeframe (30 Years War) then I don't see how is it possible to be able to built few generationd without leaving the historical period.

Of course the game only starts during that period. It doesn't have to also end there.

Btw, if you want my opinion, I don't see the real reason of making a historical accurate games. IMO, it's 100 times better to make a fictional world rather than a real-world based game.

Hehe, the history won't be accurate ;) As written in our announcement we will use the background story of a pen and paper roleplay game written by one of our team members. (=28&cHash=bd0d022477ff223c72c96e1198cde2f2]link)

You will end up with loads of historical in-accuracies + territory problem. Of course you can not make a whole Europe map. And what it is turning into are small maps, which are bad IMO. It would be great to have one world you can free roam at, completely new experience etc. Imagine your dynasty ruled the city for 30 years and now your enemies managed to kill the main leaders of the dynasty and those, who are still alive now must run out of the city to not to be killed. The dynasty is now setting up in another city, slowly building their wealth and...gets ready for revenge :)

The problem with a completely open world with lots of macro- and micromanagement is that neither the system nor the player will be able to manage it :/ I don't think that a modern computer is capable of such a big world.



Hehe. I don't see the connection between the Guild-like game and The Sims Medieval (which failed completely). I am just saying I think that your character must sleep, eat, drink..idk, maybe pray if you set him to be religious etc. I don't want the player to set him manually on these actions, but your character should show that he is tired, hungry etc. And if you won't let him to sleep or eat he may eventually die. I just found it strange that your character may work 24/7 while NPC's (except of Rogue class) are visiting taverns, sleeping, using salutial services etc.

OK, then I have to agree :) Making NPCs and player characters do "random stuff" they just have to do would be really nice, and if it would reflect the style of playing it would be even nicer, wouldn't it? :)
(by "style of playing" I mean that if the player doesn't spend much money for food the character doesn't drink much at the tavern.. Just as example^^)

Maybe I completely misunderstood Bad Karma:
Are you suggesting that the game time and season is always the same as real time and season?
Sorry, but that's the most crazy idea ever :D But I really like it. Many people won't like it, though.


Nope :)

Hmm, I still like the idea, though :D

About the courting system: We have a few ideas how it would fit, but it's completely undecided. Personally I'd prefer the whole game more like Europe 1400, where you don't see your character (well, if you clicked on people in the streets some of them actually said they're busy observing your character :D).

Offline General Chaos

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #8 on: 10 April 2011, 20:26:46 »
Oh no, I didn't mean that weather should be synced with real weather, just that it should flow from one season to the next in the game without a hard break like in The Guild (i.e. a "round"). 

As for the other real-time ideas, I realize it probably doesn't appeal to most players and it would make for some difficult design issues, so I'm completely okay with a more conventional approach.  In that regard I don't see anything terribly wrong with The Guild's time progression.  I may be in the minority but I usually play with the time set to normal speed.  In games like this I've always felt it's kind of cheating to speed things up.  Waiting around for stuff to happen is half of the "challenge."  Of course, again, I realize others probably don't share this opinion.

Offline FH

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #9 on: 10 April 2011, 20:35:54 »
Oh no, I didn't mean that weather should be synced with real weather, just that it should flow from one season to the next in the game without a hard break like in The Guild (i.e. a "round"). 

That way we wouldn't need a day set to a specific season anymore, so it would just be 2 "flows": one day/night cycle and one seasons cycle. That would mean that if we would show the exact ingame date the date would change several times during one day cycle until the season "changes" (although nobody would see the change coming, because it would be flowing).

Did I get everything right? That's propably the best suggestion so far (IMHO). This way we could remove the turns completely and make monthly/annual (depends on the length of one year) financial reports and so on.

Offline General Chaos

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #10 on: 10 April 2011, 21:08:03 »
Oh no, I didn't mean that weather should be synced with real weather, just that it should flow from one season to the next in the game without a hard break like in The Guild (i.e. a "round"). 

That way we wouldn't need a day set to a specific season anymore, so it would just be 2 "flows": one day/night cycle and one seasons cycle. That would mean that if we would show the exact ingame date the date would change several times during one day cycle until the season "changes" (although nobody would see the change coming, because it would be flowing).

Did I get everything right? That's propably the best suggestion so far (IMHO). This way we could remove the turns completely and make monthly/annual (depends on the length of one year) financial reports and so on.

Exactly.  The day/night cycle would flow faster than the season cycle.  Then of course there's the whole issue of how often elections and trials should occur.  It would be really cool if fairs were also added; say, for example, a winter fair that occurs once per "year" during that season cycle.  Fairs were a huge part of medieval economies and all of the major cities competed for them.  This could be a chance for players to sell their goods at higher prices, buy "rare" goods there are only available at that time, and for rogues a chance to pickpocket more people, etc.

Just some thoughts.  Sorry to get off topic.

Offline FH

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #11 on: 10 April 2011, 21:20:29 »
I don't think trials and elections would be a problem. Depending on the game speed we'd have to let every day be representing a week or month or whatever, so we could, for example, take a random date in this week/month/whatever and label the current day with that date.

For example if we'd let pass one month per (ingame) day we could pick a random date in this month, e.g. the 3rd of april, for this specific day. The next day would be the 16th of june, the next the 5th of july and so on.
That way we could make elections every few years and give them a certain date to let the player know when the election will start.

Fairs are also a nice idea, I must admit that we didn't think of them yet. :)

Offline bad karma

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #12 on: 10 April 2011, 22:14:01 »
Great ideas gentlemen, I just hope it won't take me "few years" to walk from one city distrcit to another as in the Guild series  ;D Fairs is great idea. To be honest, I never thought of that when played Guild series, but yea, these played a huge role in the cities/townes back then. Usually a Pope or a King would allow this kind of stuff to happen to raise his reputation among the citizens etc..

Offline General Chaos

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #13 on: 11 April 2011, 14:20:30 »
Just to remark on the Sims Medieval thing: My understanding of the way AI behavior works in The Sims 3 (and I'm assuming Medieval as well) is that whenever you're in a location it basically warps other sims there so that it seems like a lot is going on.  In other words the AI isn't simulated, it's just dynamically scripted.  The Guild, if I recall, is different in that AI behaviors are driven by actual goals that are similar to the players (e.g., you will see an AI dynasty member walking to a location b/c they actually need to be there).  I would like to see this continue because it's one of the great things about The Guild.  The focus, I think, should be on making really great AI so that the town really is alive, not just "fake alive" like in The Sims.

Oh, and on the hunger, sleep issue, I agree with what's been suggested: make it happen automatically but be affected by different variables. 

Just to note: I actually do like The Sims (and even The Sims Medieval), I just prefer The Guild and its approach to AI actions.

Offline Bluehelmet

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Re: Progress of (Game-)Time
« Reply #14 on: 07 May 2011, 22:17:26 »
I have allways found The Guild concept one of the best ideas in gaming. However i also believed that the execution of this concept lacked a few things, depth, realism and perfection.
I trust that Runeforge will adress all these factors as they seem to have the same ideas as i do.

To first "correct" something from earlyer posts, yes fairs are a good idea as they will certainly add a lot of depth and life to the game(fairs attracht all sorts of joureymen, maybe even the change to hire skilled labourers?) but it is also a fact that they were at the top of their influence in the middleages and the '30 years war is wel into the renessaince, actually early modern. So their economic role is reduced, most of this has been taken over by harbour staple-towns, like Lubeck ( Hamburg was surpassing them i believe), Amsterdam and Venice.

About the map i agree that they should not have to stretch across the entire of nw europe, but maybe its best for the economic system if contact with offmap "tradecenter" is possible. something like the Hanze kontors in The Guild only then offscreen. Also i allways thought that citys were a bit small and poorley reflected their growth. the better systems of today should be able to handle a lot more characters. I was allways frusterated by the fact that you cant produce on a big and profitable scale because the market was way to slow.

Food and sleep should be mandetory i my opinion, although this is not a sim this is part of the basic needs of humans and food took a lot of the income of poorer people in those days. maybe a nonplayable family member can be set to take care of foodsuplies. this would also increase the demand of foodstuffs and make their market mechanism more realistic.

Also on the part of transport, stagecoaches are and important part of personal transport. even more so are the barges being pulled by horses. The ships connected almost the entire netherlands on a daily schedule.
The development of building also was a bit generic in the Guild, the exterior changed but the interior hardely seemed different at all.

Im am talking offcourse from a Dutch point of view but that shouldnt make a big difference because it was an important part of the time period. I certainly hope they will be included in the game.

Allright enough words here to make an official paper( o well maybe not but still)

Good luck with the game and you allready have my gratitude for keeping this concept alive.

Bluehelmet
He who hesitates is lost.