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Author Topic: Will the game use the same multiplayer systems as all Guild games?  (Read 7137 times)

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Offline Mrbloodworth

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Please say no.

Offline FH

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No.

(although I don't know what you mean with "as all Guild games". Europe 1400 used another network engine than The Guild 2)

Offline Mrbloodworth

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No.

(although I don't know what you mean with "as all Guild games". Europe 1400 used another network engine than The Guild 2)

Good to hear!

Dedicated server? Drop in and out?

What I mean is, "The guild" has always had the old style client sync system ( Diablo, C&C, ETC.. ), yet always had desync issues.

I am glad you are designing a new engine for this title however. I had always kind of felt you were stuck using only the existing engine and just making subsequent titles with only the script layer.

« Last Edit: 02 June 2011, 19:40:28 by Mrbloodworth »

Offline FH

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Which network engine we'll use isn't decided yet, but a dedicated server would only make sense if we'd implement the game in a way that would come close to an MMO. We'll see what will fit best to our needs.

Offline Mrbloodworth

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Well, what ever you do, ditch the old client sync systems. Its been nothing but a stain on every guild title there is, it was fun when Diablo was new. Dedicated server would be my pick, its does not need to be a MMO, just have a client able to run in a dedicated mode.

This is what I want to see:

  • Drop in and drop out with no interruption of others.
  • Easier to resume game. ( Just stream the current state )
  • No more synchronous systems.
  • Host support for 1-15 players concurrent.
  • More fault tolerance.
  • Better prioritizing of traffic ( No one needs to be sent a meeting if they are not in the room ).
  • No more master list server required.
  • Better Integration with steam services ( Chat, Join, and invite systems ).

Offline Kinabalu

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I personally am against making Kontor into a MMO. Not because I don't like MMOs, but because MMOs require constant work, patches etc, which requires people who do it, which results in monthly fees to play :).
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Offline Mrbloodworth

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I dont want an MMO, but I would like to play longer than 3 hours, and be able to host a small private server.

If this game is to be anything like the guild, it needs a more robust hosting and network situation.

Offline FH

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Sorry, I misunderstood. Well, if it won't be a system like in The Guild 1/2 it must be some client-server-system (I was confused by the words "dedicated server", it doesn't have to be a dedicated server in order to be a host-client-system).

Offline Mrbloodworth

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Sorry, I misunderstood. Well, if it won't be a system like in The Guild 1/2 it must be some client-server-system (I was confused by the words "dedicated server", it doesn't have to be a dedicated server in order to be a host-client-system).

I understand, however I am referring to the low overhead setting of may games to run as a "Dedicated server".  No graphics, no player on that client, just a host window and what not with "server stats". Something I can toss on an empty machine and we can all connect to. Its normally an option when hosting.

But yeas, something that allows me to host a small private server for my group of friends ( 1-15 ) with no "Match start" like requirements.

Offline helldiver

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I think the problem with that is that they may be going with a system that keeps track of everything together. So if a friend logs off what happens to his businesses and such? Will he fail something if an event comes up?

Take the Guild 2 for example, what happens when someone who is logged off gets a court date?

Alternatively when someone logs off they could set them to be an NPC/AI mode I suppose. But then you run into the issue of what if the AI runs their business network to the ground?

I think that's what they mean by the MMO bit. Then again in an MMO we're talking about a single character only, everything else is either instanced or phased or permanently placed (unaffected) such as housing. Yet the focus of this game is on an economic network, multiple businesses and such producing, selling, and relying on each other. What happens when the player running that logs off? How will their empire be handled?

Are you guys suggesting that when I log off all my buildings are gone?
Should they all become frozen?
Should the AI run them?

We then run into another problem. If you recall from The Guild 2 there were random events that would come up. Court dates, trial hearings, and so on. What happens if one of those comes up while I'm logged off? Can I log off to avoid those events?

"Match start"
You had that style in the other Guild games because of the Turn by Turn nature of the game requiring all players to be there attentive to what was going on with their stuff I player couldn't log off without losing his buildings and such.

To create a system like I think you want, Runeforge would have to create an open world environment (I'm all for it) but I doubt they have the resources to do that as well as make provisions within the entire system to account for someone not being logged on.

Take the Guild 2, what happens if Player X who logged off needs to be in court? All of that has to be accounted for.

In Diablo, World of Warcraft, EQ, even some single player rpgs, because a player is just a single character him or her logging off doesn't really affect the world much if at all. He doesn't have a trade network going, he doesn't have multiple buildings producing stuff and selling stuff and even in MMOs that allow it (Eve, Pirates of the Burning Sea) it's one off items with preset terminal production queues.

Although perhaps Runeforge could set things up to work in a similar fashion to factories in Eve or Pirates of the Burning Sea. And when a player is logged off he just doesn't receive any random events.
« Last Edit: 03 June 2011, 22:51:57 by helldiver »

Offline ElCapitan1701

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We then run into another problem. If you recall from The Guild 2 there were random events that would come up. Court dates, trial hearings, and so on. What happens if one of those comes up while I'm logged off? Can I log off to avoid those events?


Random events are no problem as long as you don`t need to participate on it. I`m not sure, if you needed to participate on one of the events you mentioned above in The Guild 2. Maybe you get a slight advantage by participating...

I would really love to see Kontor being just a framework for roleplaying and character development. You don`t need to implement court dates...you just need to implement some sort of right managment, so one person could bring another person into jail. How this power is assigned should be decision of the players. Maybe they elect someone - maybe it`s some sort of succession. But in both cases the person with the jail-rights, lets call him judge, will invite both players to hear their side of the story....so there will be a court procedure without implemting it into the game!

So the game should only provide the politics toolset in the way of gamemechanics. The players choose on how many players of the town this power tools are going to be distributed. So there could be different cities, with different types of politics. (like the old greeks)

Offline DaveMurray

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Re: Will the game use the same multiplayer systems as all Guild games?
« Reply #11 on: 16 August 2011, 20:48:08 »
for example, i would like to see, a system like.... counter strike.

This is not require a separate network dedicated server from runeforge. So the costs for providing expensive server hardware or anything else will not be a problem.

And its better to have this style. You can find easily from a browser in the game, servers to play. you will not spend hours/days/months to find a "server" to play the game with REAL players from all the world.

All we can be the server, all we can be clients. End of story :p :)
And we live better, and you much better..

Offline cadleo

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Re: Will the game use the same multiplayer systems as all Guild games?
« Reply #12 on: 23 August 2011, 21:47:40 »
As long as it works without game ending sync issues, I dont care what method they use.

Offline Aggamemnon

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Re: Will the game use the same multiplayer systems as all Guild games?
« Reply #13 on: 08 December 2011, 19:38:10 »
The Current system used in Renaissance is fine imo.
As long as you have the ability to save and restore multiplayer games then I am happy.

I would love a move towards a permanent server (or semi permanent) akin to the likes of new games like minecraft and terraria where not every play has to be present while the game world moves forward, but that would present the problems previously mentioned in regards to events and such.

It's definitely possible to assign AI to tasks, like running shops, and trade networks, this is already available in guild 2.
The only thing missing is event management for absent players.

I think the best System is just the ability to Save and Load games.

Offline Zalzany

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Re: Will the game use the same multiplayer systems as all Guild games?
« Reply #14 on: 06 January 2012, 16:22:12 »
Dedicated is ok, syncing is not as horrible as guild 2 makes out. Its been done way longer, and a lot more successful then guild 2 for decades. Dedicated servers are a big craze with non shooters because companies can use it to push for legit copies, and in olden days when dial-up was still the norm to help out those poor SOBs who wanted to host a game. Note that with a Shooter a dedicated server is a must these days to lesson exploits, and to keep things smooth, most RPGs, and Strategy games can handle syncs fine, and even counter out of sync issues; its Guild 2's buggy code as mentioned in the forums that causes all the problems.

Personally if RuneForge wants to shell out for the server I got no qualms. I will defiantly be keeping an eye on this game, but if it comes down to me paying a fee, even a silly once a year fee to play online, I will hope they put in an old tried and true lan system. Also I play Guild 2 with my roommates so LAN is actually the fastest most stable choice for us, with the exception of Guild 2...

P.S. I might be showing my age here, but I do loath the fazing out of LAN, I miss the old days where me and some pals set up computers on folding tables, and milk crates. Ordered some pizza, and gamed the night away...
« Last Edit: 06 January 2012, 16:24:48 by Zalzany »

 

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